Matt Serra bears a striking resemblance to a young Robert DeNiro in Raging Bull. He's a straight talker who is not afraid to call out some names. He is way smarter than Jake LaMotta, but like LaMotta he wants to fight only the best. Of course we are talking MMA in the 21rst century. We discussed the UFC, other fighters, Japan, and Brazilian Jiu-jitsu. He is a world champion in BJJ and a Pan American Gold Medallist. In Japan he was refered to as Renzo Gracie's number one student. We met up at one of his Jiu jitsu academies in Huntington Long Island at "open mat" during a serious snowstorm.

F:
In your last MMA fight in the UFC you won a judges decision against Din Thomas, which was then reversed. How did you feel about that?

Serra:
That's a terrible thing to happen to any fighter; I don't recall that ever happening before. I'm sure it might have happened somewhere before, maybe in boxing. But it's definitely the first time I think it's happened in the UFC. It was not the greatest feeling, it was pretty bad, especially since one of us was there to fight, and the other was there to try to get the decision. I could respect him a lot more if he would have tried to end the fight in his terms. I understand that he didn’t want to go to the ground with me and he didn't want to jump the guard like he did with Uno, but I'd respect it a lot more if he tried to finish it on his feet. Keep me away, all right, but try to put me out; he did nothing of the sort. When that bell rang he was happy, almost like he survived or something, because in a fight I believe I'll destroy Din Thomas. And I think he it knows too, I've seen his eyes and I think the guy is scared of me. I think he was just happy to survive and that was his whole game plan. His instructor Ricardo Laborio even told me after the fight. "We knew that Din couldn't fight on the floor with you. We wanted him to win even if meant not to fight you." I appreciate his honesty, but I can't really respect that. We are there to fight, that's what we are getting paid for. I think he saw the Penn fight and thought; alright I'll just stay away from him and get the victory. Now I have stuff to remedy that, I worked on different body locks, takedowns, were once I get that clinch they're not going to get away. I'll be prepared, if a guy comes to fight, great, I'm down for a war. If the guy comes to run, I'll get him.

F:
What do you think about Din fighting a much larger Amar Souliev, in Pride in Japan. It was a good pay day for him and supposedly a great experience, would you do it?

Serra:
I would love to do something like that. But I wouldn't do it just to get knocked out for a pay day, I wouldn't be happy with that.

F:
I can't wait to see a rematch between you two.

Serra:
I don't think he would rematch me, Din. I would love to though.

F:
Do you think Din will be back to the UFC after Japan? It seems the UFC is having difficulty booking light weights, they’ve changed your opponents twice already. Ivan Menjivar is your third opponent, Gerald Strebent was second, and before that Vasquez. What’s going on with the light weights?

Serra:
The light weight division is having some trouble, I guess just from the fact that the tournament thing didn't work out with the B.J. Penn/Uno fight, and everything around that. But you know what, I don't get too caught up in it, because if they got rid of that weight class today I would just go up to welter weight. I'll fight heavier, I don't really care, I'm very strong at 155lbs., but I wouldn't mind fighting heavier. I wish there was a 160 something weight class. I don't get caught up in who is the champ or who owns the title. I'm just looking forward to some fun fights.

F:
I feel the light weight division is or was the toughest weight class. But now that B.J. Penn has moved up to welter weight, and Uno’s contract is up, and Din might not return, it seems to leave you on the top. You gave B.J. a great fight, perhaps you needed to attack more at the end. How did you feel about that decision?

Serra:
I'm a real tough critic on myself, I think I could have pushed it more in the third round, but I think there should have been way more attack on his part. I believe that, if there was any attacking, I was the one that did it. He thought the fight would go one way, but it didn’t go his way. In hind sight, he had a very good poker face cause that third round he was out. I could have pushed more in the third and he would have broke. He was looking for a reason to give up, he didn’t want to be in there. As far as the decision, man I’m not gonna bitch about a decision. Would I like to fight B.J. again, I would love to fight B.J. again. I would love for him to fight me the way he fought Gomi. He came to fight, that was a good fight.

F:
How do you think B.J. is going to do against Matt Hughes?

Serra:
On paper I think he is getting a beating, I think he's gonna get hurt. But, this is a sport of upsets and he is dangerous. Hughes has the experience. Hughes has fought better strikers and more dangerous submission guys. B.J., besides Gomi who gave him his back and he choked him, who else has he submitted in MMA? In his guard, he's good at getting back to his feet. Matt has fought tougher strikers, and Carlos Newton, who I believe is a dangerous submission guy, from Jiu-jitsu. B.J.'s got a flexible guard, but besides that lazy Oma Plata, you don't see him going for anything.

F:
He reminds me of Vitor, more on his feet and avoiding the ground?

Serra:
Yeah, B.J. is a bit lazy on his back.

F:
So he was avoiding the ground with you as well then?

Serra:
That's another thing, I believe so. He stated that he would rather be on top, well then put me down. He tried one takedown and I went right with it to my butterfly guard. I stood up, because he worked to just get past real quick, and I had to. So if your thing is to be on top, then just put me down. Just come to fight, is what I ask basically. I have over one hour of fighting in the UFC, and what I like, win or lose are the battles. A lot of people liked the Shonie Carter fight.

F:
What weight was that fight at?

Serra:
Shonie was bigger than me it was at 170lbs. That's one guy I would like a rematch with, although I heard he’s having trouble making weight at 170 now.

F:
Now your next opponent Ivan Menjivar, I know he’s from the UCC, he’s got a 13-2 record in MMA, but he usually fought at 145lbs. He also went al the way against Shaolin Ribeiro.

Serra:
Yeah, but that means nothing, Jens Pulver fought at 145lbs. but was also the champ at 155lbs. for a long time when he beat B.J. Penn. So the weight thing is not the biggest thing, it's how is he technically and how dangerous is he. From what I heard, I believe he is tougher than Gerald. I saw Gerald, he is a talented guy, but he doesn't like to get hit too much, not that anybody does. But when you get hit you do either of two things, you either get focused and want to get the guy back and keep your wits or, you panic. Every time he lost, he has three losses, he shied away from getting strikes and I think he quit a lot of times. So I was going to give him a reason to quit, I was looking forward to fighting Gerald. But, if this guy is more of a warrior and a tougher guy, I'd prefer to fight him.

F:
I thought you were originally supposed to fight Franca?

Serra:
Actually, I asked to fight Franca after I saw him fight Rich Crunklin. Once I saw him fight that guy, I thought, that would be a good fight. That's what I'm looking for, not easy fights. First of all, at that level you don't get easy fights. I want to fight, win or lose, an exciting fight. Me and Hermes Franca would be fun. Uno would be fun, I see a lot of fights I could get excited for. As long as they bring their A game.

F:
What do you think about Hermes knocking out Caol Uno?

Serra:
I was there in Vegas for that, but I missed that fight. I arrived right after, that was the first fight of the night and I missed it. But that doesn't show that he's better. Hermes, he's got balls, I like him. He's definitely a guy who just goes for it; I want to fight him. This kid he’s fighting, Josh Thompson, is a big guy at 155lbs.

F:
It's good to see two light weight cards in the UFC, they've been neglected since the B.J./Uno fight.

Serra:
I like Uno, he's always trying. Is he still in the UFC?

F:
That was the last fight in his contract, rumors say he might go into Bushido.

Serra:
I would love to fight Uno somewhere. I like Uno a lot, and he is a nice guy to. As a fighter, he fights everybody. I think a lot of guys, when they fight Uno, they take him a little lightly. But he always pulls stuff out of his hat, he's tricky.

F:
I imagine that like any MMA fighter, you would like to go to Japan. Have there been any offers from Pancrase or Shooto or Bushido? I know there was the Zest event, but it didn't go through.

Serra:
Yeah, that was a big mix up, because I was really looking forward to it. I told Renzo that I wasn't doing anything immediately with the UFC. This was during the summer time, so I told Renzo to see if he could get me something in Japan. He called me back right away about a sixteen man tournament. Right away I asked him what the rules are. He told me that it was the same as Pancrase Pride, those type of rules. I said put me in. Unfortunately about a month or three weeks before the event, when I was training, I got the contract. When I read it, the rules were similar to Rings rules. No striking on the floor, very quick stand ups, and if it went the distance no matter what happened, no submission no knock out, it was a draw. It's not that I'm against doing stuff like this, but not now. I wanted the fights I'm used to, or less rules instead of more rules. The more rules you put in, it makes the worse fighter look better. I wasn't training my ass off to play games. I wanted a victory, or… I know Katani is doing very well in Japan and he could use me as a spring board, I drew with Matt Serra. I could understand if I had these rules with Gomi or something. Then they told me I was the main event, and I said Renzo, what are we going to do. There was a miscommunication somewhere between me and Renzo, or Renzo and the promoters.

F:
Do you feel like the top light weight in the UFC currently?

Serra:
There's so many tough guys out there. Except for the Shonie Carter fight, nobody ever made me look like a kid. The losses I have, if you look at the record, a 3-2 record, but who really beat me? If you look at the Carter fight, I was dominating him and I got caught at the end, which was an amateur mistake. It was my first fifteen-minute war, and it happened to be against a guy with a lot of experience. I didn't know how to pace myself. Hindsight is 20/20, but what I like to remember most about that fight is that there were six seconds left, or ten when I got up. I could have stayed in my guard and gone for the decision, but I tried to go after him, which is more of my street fighting instincts. I think I've learned a lot since then. I've definitely made up for that, with sparring and training to make sure it won't happen again. Anybody can get caught, and not that I can’t be beat, but I know I could beat any light weight in there.

F:
What have you been working on, or trying to improve most recently?

Serra:
I've been working a lot on my wrestling, all different types of takedowns and clinching. I’ve been studying Couture, I love the way he does his takedowns. I've been working a lot on the takedowns that don't take a lot of effort or timing, everything from foot sweeps to knee locks. There's different things that are really functional for a fight, I've been watching some of the better wrestlers in the UFC, the way they're pulling it off. I bring my wrestlers in, watch the tapes and say look, show me how they're doing this, I want to improve in that. I've improved a tremendous amount with my takedowns. That's one aspect, also a lot of sparing, and Jiu-jitsu always, but I've been working on all the other areas to get them up to par with my Jiu jitsu.

F:
What about kicking?

Serra:
Kicking as well, a lot of punching, clinch work, the elbows, the knees, basically working the all around game, even the striking on the floor. There is so much that I have been working on since the B.J. Penn fight, there is so much I have to show the MMA world in general.

F:
What do you think about fights, which are too close, no clear winner, being deemed draws? Or would you prefer extra rounds to pick the winner ?

Serra:
I think that gives you a bigger incentive to finish the fight, especially if you're tired. I'll finish it in this round. I like that better. Some guys fight just to get through it, or just to win a decision. I like the idea of an extra round, I do my cardio.

F:
How do feel about Zuffa taking the UFC towards a "Boxing Image" while in Japan they go for the Pro Wrestling thing?

Serra:
I like the entertainment value, only because I believe that my style is more entertaining and exciting to watch. I believe that Zuffa is trying to be accepted more mainstream. In Japan they like the over the top spectacle. They love the pro wrestling aspect of it, and it's well received. Over here it's not as well received. In Japan, a lot of times, they’ll have a guy back, who is losing, but who is entertaining. I like that. But over here, if they try to do it like pro wrestling, they can't really do it among the fighters. If a guy loses a bit, a lot of times they get rid of him, so it's hard to build it around the fighters. So they're trying to build it like boxing, more mainstream. Whatever is better for the sport in the United States, I'm all for. But again, if want that spectacle and all of that, that's part of the reason that I want to fight in Japan. I like that, I like that Sudo fought Butterbean. I want that, put me in there with Butterbean, put me in there with a freak show.

F:
So you think it is also important for a fighter to be an entertainer?

Serra:
I think that's crucial, I think that's what separates this from boxing. People want to see these fights with a lot of excitement and a lot of action. They don't like guys just playing the rules, playing to win, playing it safe, they need to give out yellow cards. They take away from the excitement just playing the rule. It’s not boxing, you want boxing, then go and play that game. In MMA it should be about fighting.

F:
Is boxing the biggest competitor of MMA in the US?

Serra:
Boxing is a combative sport, compared to Football, which is rough, but. The people who follow the boxing or maybe the pro wrestling might be more likely to watch the UFC. They might dig ultimate fighting more than the guy who watches baseball.

F:
In Japan, they expect a fighter to be an entertainer first, they expect you to speak into the microphone, or in front of the camera. Do you think fighters should only fight?

Serra:
I think its much more entertaining when you get guys who are characters. Guys like Genki Sudo, coming out in the UFC with his robot entrance. That's why I wanted to fight Genki, I was going to fight Genki, but they couldn't make that fight happen for some reason. I think this factor is crucial for this sport to grow in the United States. It's really popular in Japan, they dig that, people really dig entertainment.

F:
Would you do a pro wrestling show?

Serra:
I prefer to fight the way I'm doing now. I would never do a fake MMA match, but if it's pro-wrestling, and everybody knows, yeah I would do it. But if it's the UFC or Pride and someone said, hey take a fall, I ain’t down with that.

F:
Do you prefer fighting in the cage as opposed to the ropes?

Serra:
I would prefer a smaller cage; it's harder to cut someone off. If two guys are coming at each other, it doesn't really matter. But the way my fights have been going and I have to get a hold of somebody? In the ring its easier to cut someone off than in a thirty foot cage. I would like to fight in a ring, I haven't fought in one in a long time. I would like the smaller space the better, to tell you the truth.

F:
Do you think the cage caters to wrestlers skills rather than other techniques?

Serra:
It takes away from some of the technique, but I can't see the UFC doing away with it. It's their trademark, the Octagon, the UFC. But I would love to fight in a ring in Japan. Cut them off, get a hold of them, if you're about to go out they restart you in the middle. I like that.

F:
If you could change anything about the UFC, what would it be?

Serra:
I would implement the Yellow card rule. Stalling! First thing, anyone who is not engaging, mess with their purse, you'll see they'll want to fight. That's the biggest difference, the guys who shy away from a fight. They give out yellow cards like candy in Pride. Quentin Jackson and Kevin Randleman. Watch what happens in that fight. Quentin said "What!" And in 25 seconds he mounted Randleman and started beating the crap out of him. Start messing with their money and see what happens, they'll fight.

F:
What about the stop don’t move rule?

Serra:
For the ring it's fine, because you go through the ropes.

F:
What about the cage, when you’ve been stuck against the cage for awhile and nothings happening?

Serra:
They do call that fence the third man in the Octagon.

F:
For example Genki /Ludwig.

Serra:
Yeah , Genki got screwed, cause he (Ludwig) wasn't getting up.

F:
I think they did change the rules, after a doctors check they go back to the same position.

Serra:
That's good news.

F:
What would you like to do in the near future? A shot at the belt?

Serra:
If the belt comes, it comes. I would love that, to fight for the title. Otherwise I'm looking for as many exciting fights as possible. I'm not going to be fighting forever, I'm twenty nine now, I can see myself fighting for another ten years at least. I'll be the Jiu-jitsu mans Randy Couture. I just look for exciting fights and I definitely want to fight in Japan sometime hopefully in 2004. This year, over there, I think I could be appreciated. In the meantime, I'm happy I'm fighting in the UFC again. It is the big show, and it's a done a lot for me. As you can see, I have a lot of students, nice schools, I've been in a couple of video games.

F:
Do you think strikers are the biggest threat coming into MMA now?

Serra:
It's a combination. I mean, Matt Hughes is one of the biggest threats out there and he's a wrestler, he strikes on the ground. Sakurai is a better striker than him, but look at what Hughes did to him. It depends on the person, how great their strengths are in that one area. Even that Judo kid looked very good, Karo Parysian. He was fighting Strasser who is more of a striker and a scrapper, it was a very nice fight. It depends on the individual.

F:
What do you think of this Phenomena called Cro-Cop?

Serra:
I think that he is a scary individual, he was looking scary, but then again, you have to take your hat off to Minotauro. Minotauro took everything he gave him, he got him down and finished him in a minute and a half or less. That's Jiu-jitsu, you hang in there, you weather the storm and you finish it. A good submission guy is just as dangerous as a good striker. That was a beautiful MMA fight, and it shows you how a fight can turn around at the drop of a dime.

F:
Is Wanderlei the best light-heavy?

Serra:
Yes, I think he is, Silva is tough, he's just a warrior. I mean what do you see, Tito holding him down? That's another thing, that was a terrible fight.

F:
In the recent UFC New Years Eve show, nearly all the footage was of knockouts, or strikers. The only submissions were Royst at the very beginning and Mir at the end. How do you feel about the UFC promoting the sport this way?

Serra:
Instead of educating the fans to submissions, they are catering to the fans who want to see someone getting punched in the mouth. They could watch a tough man contest if they want to see that. That’s why sooner or later you'll be seeing me in Japan. Put the word out.
(Hand Shake)